Curse

scout of norge · Mar 15, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25

peace and harmony

Pi_Numurian · Mar 15, 2006, 09:28 PM // 21:28

100 Blades

Gunz Blazing Smile · Mar 15, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

I never seen Practiced Stance actually work well, unless you want an elite in your slot and have nothing else to put there. I wish I could do Practiced Stance and Incendiary Arrows... but I can't so I say Practiced Stance, but thats just my opinion.

Toll Booth Willie · Mar 15, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

cleave (axe skill)
Ward against harm

Both don't deserve to be elites. Watch yourelf > wah and several attack skills do as much or more than cleave and are not elites.

Former Ruling · Mar 15, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Let me explain QuickShot again. Bows take over 2 seconds normally to fire (type of bow changes this alittle). Then theres a airtime that the arrow takes to get ot the opponent.

What QuickShot does is turn that >2 sec bow speed into 1 sec (making it over twice as fast there) AND reduces airtime by half like the desp. says.

Remember - Casting Times on Bow Attacks are GOOD unlike casting times on Spells. Casting times on bows that are 2 secs or under means it is acutally maknig the bow attack faster - even though if you look at it from a casters point it looks like it has a cast time and others dont so its bad.

And Cleave has proven itself numourous times and that discussion should'nt even be brought up. Cleave Outdmg's Eviserate in striaght amount of dmg over time, this is without the Deep Wound factored in. The only reason Evis. is better is because Deep Wound adds so much to the attack (DW is actually a pretty nasty condition, second only to Dazed in its power).

QuixotesGhost · Mar 15, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count to Potato

Warriors Endurance, not cuz its bad but cuz so many better elites out there for warrior

I think it's one of the Best Elites for a PvE Warrior built around Doylak Signet + "Watch Yourself!" There is a ton of interesting secondary stuff you can do with it. I like /Ele for Point blank nukes. If I'm a monk and you use /Mo to throw up Aegis...

You've just become my favorite warrior ever.

MSecorsky · Mar 15, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodo The Extinct

I say the worst elite in the game is Greater Conflageration. It is so fragile, it can`t be used in stratagies. Its sad.

Anywhere critters can't handle cold damage... Greater Conflag + Winter is devastating. GF also will shut down an orders necro if it can be protected.

Former Ruling · Mar 15, 2006, 09:57 PM // 21:57

now the rest of what i started this morning:

Mesmer:
Energy Surge - good E-denial+dmg
Panic - one of the funnest Elites
Power Block - can shutdown a caster
Mantra of Rec - Less used because of more popular choices that work better. This has to be Bottom Three. Just the way its linked is bad.
Crippling - I dont get the hate :\ This can totally shutdown a runner.
Fevered - got a boost, its decent.
Illusionary Weaponry - Owns anyone not prepared for it
Ineptitude - Bad Picture, marginally decent effect...its pretty low on charts too.
Migraine - better, is useful.
Energy Drain - Not as bad as people make it out to be. Its good energy return for e-denial in the same skill.
Keystone - Signet builds arent all popular, but they might be, and at 16 it only disables others for 4 secs. People use other skills that blackout their own skills..why not use it as a cost.
Mantra of Recall - one of the most popular Energy regens
Echo - Builds based on it
Signet of Midnight - Not that bad at all on a caster.

So Mesmers have some of the best, and some of the worst...

Eles:
Glimmering Mark - Has to be down there low. Why? not because its useless or any garbage response like that, its because it requires teamwork and constant supervision by the ele. Its uses are definately more pve (where warrior mobs crowd up) - the ele has to keep it up on 1 target thats not being bashed atm, thne has to keep constant lightning dmg on the target, or have teamwork and a nobody hitting it with a lightning mod weapon and thats teamwork you will not get in pve...
Lightning Surge - Isnt that bad. Was given timed hex status so it wouldn't pwn as hard. almost 100 dmg and knockdown? yea.
Mind Shock - good dmg'ing elite
Thunderclap - Down there with Mark for the same reasons...
Obsidian Flesh - Like the monks spellbreaker except selfcast only,since its duration is almost its recharge they added speed reduce as a sideeffect.
Ether Prodigy - energy...
Ether Renewal - Is actually good in the right build. Prodigy is easier though
Mind Burn - like mind shock - the minds are ok spells
Mind Freeze - worst of the mind elites, but still their all decent
Mist Form - Acutally pretty good defense to get warriors off you. Ele's dont attack much anyway.
Ward - put in water as a balance..cause its good..
Water - can Peeve a warrior on your tail.
Elemental Attunement - energy management..
Glyph of Energy - not the best glyph, but can make those better spells easier to handle.
Glyph of Renewal - the reason people go /ele.

Ele has some bad ones too..

So Whats worse? Who knows, its a toss up betwee na a few mesmer elites and a few ele ones. (not the ones you'd expect).

wiz12268 · Mar 15, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

I think most of the people here listing are guessing or have never used or tried a build that could utilize the skill mentioned.

That is why my list was limited to Memer, range, ele, and Monk skills, because those are hte primary classes I have played the most.

Every elite seems to have some sort of use (except for Keystone Signet) therefore I think that one is the most useless. But the others I listed are ones that can be replaced by one or two non elite spells and do the same or more, and still have an elite spot open.

A GREAT elite is one that a build can be built around...like SS, Barrage, Oath Shot,Ferocious Strike(sort of), Aura of Lich (sort of), SOJ (sort of), Ether Renewel (used to be super overpowered), Mist Form(used to be overpowered), Life Barrier(used to be moreso), BIP(used to be moreso), and even Greater Conflagration. Those are the best elites I have ever used in the game. They are theones that can be used to make a build around, and are almost irreplaceable in a certain build structure.

What makes the other skills/spells "elite" are that they either cost less energy, or have a quicker recharge or cast time. Hardly Elite, More aptly called "better" skills, but certainly not elite.

IMO there are nt many ELITE skills in the game. Some are very good, Hell Protective Spirit is better than 75% of the elites in the game, relative,y cheap, relatively long lasting, and almost instant cast. AND you can build more than a few builds around it.

As for quick shot, it is still one of the few ELITE skills in the game. It is not nearly as overpowering as it was, but it is still very powerful, not as stand alone as it was, but in conjunction with a couple other skills/buffs it is still super powerful/practical elite skill. People that don't like it simply haven't tried it in the correct context yet, or haven't even captured it(since it is a hard one to get spawn).

It used to be FAR more popular than Barrage, but now Barrage is back to the flavor of the month, and people are saying that IT is overpowered.(which it isn't even close to being).

Certain cookie cutter builds make or break "elite" skills. Give someone a build that works for them and they will suddenly change their tune. if someone made a build that could somehow utilize Keystone Sig then that one would quickly gain notoriety. I haven't really tried to make a build to use it, but I don't think I could even if I did. What would make it a MUCH better skill would be to actually have a few more signets with Mesmer based magic. There are a total of 5, and 2 are elites. Plus for a mesmer skill and an elite, it has a LONG cast time.

moonos · Mar 15, 2006, 10:44 PM // 22:44

the worst elite of all time is Marksmans Wager. I have NEVER used this skill in pvp or pve

Ado · Mar 15, 2006, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by p3falien

Ahem,... hold it for a bit.
More dmg with a warrior ?? u must never has seen this build in action.

i have a Me/W build and it outdamages every warrior in the game. the downside is ofcourse the armourdrop for mesmer but the role of an IWmesmer is different. ( soz for that offtopic buildtalk) so IW = usefull as hell imho.

Thnx for the info. It'll probably change my mind about IW

Tarkin · Mar 15, 2006, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

Im a little surpised at all the quickshot hate.

If your objective is to apply pressure then quickshot is a really good skill to up your dps. I guess people assume that rangers dont apply pressure well unless they are spreading posion. The flexablity in quickshot is that - you can apply pressure (on a point target like a warrior does) and support a spike with one skill.

I think a lot of elites are not "practical" to use because collectively our builds are optimized for the natural flow of how the game is played. Because of this, certain skills just dont fit in even though they could be perfectly fine or maybe great in select situations.

That being recognized a lot of elite skills are worst because other elites are better.
They are better mostly because they address a majority of situations that arise (metagame) or are very good at allowing situations for players to create.
Also, they are better for the ease of coropative use. The more independent a skill is the more use it will get because teamwork takes a significant amount of work in this game.

No one hate quick shot...

Zeroed · Mar 15, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Rangers have some pretty bad elites.

Marksmans wager gives a lot of energy, I've only ever really used it once in combo with spinal shivers and that was mostly a gimmick; its hard to work into builds and 2 sec cast kills it even more.

Melthandru's Resilliance must be bad, I dont think I've ever seen anyone play it.

Greater Conflag is fairly useless in practice, since it dies with about 3 hits from a warrior and you can't take oath shot to put it back up again. Also not much good if the enemies are attacking from out of range of it.

Practiced stance isn't great because you can only have one preparation up at a time, and just because there are better ways to use the elite spot.

So I'd guess one of the ranger ones has to be the worst.

Raxxman · Mar 15, 2006, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theos

Its already GOD just no one knows how to use it. Anything that can drain 60 energy, interupt three spells, and cancel three elites (permanently) every 15/10/5 (based on build) seconds is god in my eyes.

Why the hell do I keep defending Keystone...

Worst elite: Skull Crack in its current condition.

care to explain this 5 second 3 interupts or 3 elite cancel build?

seriously, tell me cause I number crunch and I'd rather give keystone sig to a foe than use it on myself every single day of the week and 100 times on tuesday. But I'd love to see this this.

arredondo · Mar 15, 2006, 11:42 PM // 23:42

I made a nifty KS build last summer and its pretty fun to play... I'll post it up in it's own thread in a few seconds.

Haggard · Mar 15, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

i'll have to echo the guy earlier and say no elite is useless, just because nobodies thought up a great way to use it doesnt mean there isnt one.

Cowboy Nastyman · Mar 16, 2006, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Skull crack

After many chapters keystone sig will be GOD.

after mastering skull crack timing and being able to daze about anything i disagree, my vote for worst is wither

Richie · Mar 16, 2006, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggard

i'll have to echo the guy earlier and say no elite is useless, just because nobodies thought up a great way to use it doesnt mean there isnt one.

Ya honestly every elite has its builds. Melrunders Resiliencs someone said has practicualy no use. Well if im correct for every enchantment and condition you have on you, you gain x amout of health regen and x amount of energy regen. Get a bonder on your team in pve mabey pvp and you got nice mana and health

twicky_kid · Mar 16, 2006, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboy Nastyman

after mastering skull crack timing and being able to daze about anything i disagree, my vote for worst is wither

Skull crack is only viable vs 2+ second cast. If you interrupt anything else its pure luck. For a 9 adrenaline skill that adds no dmg I don't think I want to rely on luck for it to be effective. Then when dazed in inflicted its going to be removed within a few seconds.

Concussion shot is 10x better than skull crack and is not an elite.

Melandrus res does have a very good use. Draw conditions and mel's is so good.

You can strip conditions from you teammates, gain energy regen to pay for more draw conditions, and gain hp regen so the conditions won't kill you. Only problem is mo/r or r/mo are not good combos.

Inureface · Mar 16, 2006, 01:07 AM // 01:07

No its for every hex and conditon, and my mo/r uses that while boon protting since everyone thinks they can just pile the hexes and boon prot = owned.